Your Life After Tech
After decades of building a tech career, author Debbie Levitt is one of many people with questions, anxieties, and doubts. As a mentor and coach, the employed and unemployed often ask her, “What happened to tech jobs?” and “What will I do next?”
In each episode, we'll meet someone who has left tech, is leaving tech, is adding non-tech work to a tech career, or is reinventing themselves with entrepreneurial adventures. You don't have to leave tech to join our multiverse!
You are the phoenix. It's never too early to plan what you'll do when you're done with tech… or tech is done with you... or you want to add non-tech work to a tech career.
Your Life After Tech is a podcast from the LifeAfterTech.info multiverse. Check out our "Life After Tech" book (with 18 actionable exercises), Discord community, coaching, and more. Use the "Phoenix Flight Plan" to get grounded, plan, rise, and soar.
Your Life After Tech
Ep 002: Danielle Malik - From Silicon Valley to Social Impact
Discover the inspiring journey of Danielle Malik, a seasoned design leader who has transitioned from the tech world to make a significant impact in social causes. After two decades in the tech industry, Danielle embarked on a mission to align her work with her values. Motivated by her passion for addressing complex challenges in sectors like fintech, healthcare, and green energy, Danielle made the bold decision to transition from tech following a layoff.
Get to know Danielle and her new business, Rising Tide Residences, a housing initiative helping those in need and in transition.
Welcome to the your Life After Tech podcast. This is Episode 2. I'm Debbie Levitt. Don't forget to check out our lifeaftertechinfo multiverse, including our book, discord, community coaching and more, because you might be done with tech, tech might be done with you, or you're thinking about adding non-tech work to your tech career. Today's guest is Danielle Malik, d-a-n-i-e-l-l-e-m-a-l-i-k. Tide residencesorg R I S I N G, t I D E R E S, I D E N C E S. We'll be talking about her journey through design leadership and through layoffs, and finally landing on a really rewarding business helping those going through difficult transitions. Let's get to know Danielle.
Danielle:Hello, I am Danielle and I'm talking to you from the beautiful Bay Area of California. I've lived here for about 20 years and it's been a pretty fantastic place to forge a tech career in that time. During those 20 years, I've also been a teacher, a mentor, a small business owner, board member, volunteer politically and professionally, mother of twins and a mother of two chihuahuas. I realize that's not a great flex, but they are my babies now.
Debbie:So Dogs, mom unite. Yes, yeah. So I wanted to know more about some of your tech background. I think you said you were working in tech about 20 years. What kinds of things were you doing?
Danielle:years? What kinds of things were you doing? Well, I've had about 20 years in tech as a designer and a design leader, focusing mainly on user experience, and in that time I've worked mostly in consultancies. One of them was Hot Studio, which was acquired by Facebook. One of them was Hot Studio, which was acquired by Facebook, and I did spend some time there.
Danielle:But the majority of my experience professionally has been working on client projects and mostly in the enterprise space, and in my work I've always kind of gravitated toward complexity.
Danielle:I always like the big, meaty problems to solve, the big meaty problems to solve, looking at spaces and subject matter that I think a lot of other people would find dry or uninteresting, but those are the things that I really kind of jump into, the things that break your brain a little bit when you think about it. So I've had a great fortune in working in fintech, logistics, healthcare, green energy, industrial monitoring things like that have been kind of my bread and butter. And then I also took a couple of years and started my first business, and that was also in the design consultancy model also in the design consultancy model, but my company hired only junior designers for mentored projects with non-profits and early stage startups. So that was a great experience. It eventually needed to kind of get back to making the sort of money I could make in a bigger company. But it was a great experience and also kind of a runway to what I'm doing now, in a way.
Debbie:Yeah, and we'll definitely get there. I wanted to ask when did you start thinking sorry, start thinking about shifting toward work outside of tech of tech.
Danielle:Well, as I got older and matured more in my career, I did become cognizant of the need to kind of future my career. I was starting to see that, you know, as people get older in tech, fewer opportunities become available if you don't choose certain paths. And so I did try and do some diversifying a little bit. I started teaching I thought was a good way to kind of create some more underpinnings. The thing that I started was squarely in tech but also had some potential kind of off ramps for me. And so, you know, I also became aware that, because of health reasons, sitting behind a computer all day, every day wouldn't be the most beneficial to my long term health. But I wasn't really actively seeking a career change until I got laid off.
Debbie:And when was that?
Danielle:I was laid off. I guess it's almost two years ago, so it was January of 2023 when I got laid off.
Debbie:Okay, so which came first, you feeling done with tech or you suspecting that tech was done with you?
Danielle:Yeah, well, you know tech. I would say a little bit of both. So you know, as with most industries, you know, design shifts and evolves. I've seen it over my career. Definitely there's a pretty radical evolution happening lately. I think previously that evolution was happening a little more conventionally where new skills are needed. New tools are being used and so they need to be learned. New competencies are added to the job description right, and so you know, as a professional you can certainly adapt.
Danielle:Sometimes you get pushed out of your core skills or pushed into areas that maybe aren't quite where you're strongest, but then also you can be pushed out of areas that interest you or pushed out of your passion. So you know, there's been a lot over time that you know, maybe wasn't quite as interesting to me or maybe I actually have been feeling conflicted. I definitely feel conflicted about AI. I think the tech industry we've already been kind of culpable for so much of the digital addictions that are happening and, I think, not terribly good at taking responsibility for our role in there. I always like to work on projects that I felt good about. I felt good, you know, to what I was contributing to. But yeah, it also feels good to kind of shift out of that and feel a little more grounded in that the things that I'm doing have more tangible good. So, um, yeah, I would say, uh, tech and I kind of parted ways on equal terms fair enough.
Debbie:Oh, look out for the train. I wanted to definitely hear more about what you've been doing and how you got started on that path. So, yeah, bring us more into that story.
Danielle:Right. So I had been seeing a trainer at a local gym and she and I became friends and in addition to her trainers she also was running a group home business and we started talking about collaboration, kind of initially from a real estate investment angle. But the more I learned about what she was doing, the more interesting it sounded to me, and at that time I had just been laid off. I started with her when I was working, but then when I was laid off I started talking to her a little bit more intently about joining forces and I feel incredibly lucky to have such a fantastic business partner. We were very well together. As I mentioned, she already had a business doing group homes and so we started a new one together with a slightly different focus. So our new business together Rising Tide Residency. So our new business together Rising Tide Residency.
Danielle:It focuses more on providing second chance housing. I say group homes but it's actually called supportive housing needed where people can't quite be out on their own for economic reasons, for mental health reasons, just needing support in general, and there are so many people who we can reach in this way. Supportive housing offers lower rents for people, a communal setting, so that people are getting support. They can maybe cook meals together or lean on each other for logistics, rides, places, things like that and we've been working with a large variety of social service agencies in the Bay Area and creating relationships and getting referrals for people who need those services that supportive housing provides, and so we've been working with.
Danielle:One of our big targets is reentry people who are formerly incarcerated veterans, elderly we work with transitional age youth, people who are transitioning out of foster care or juvenile detention, and then just a lot of people who are, you know, down on their luck, who are kind of locked out of the typical rental market, and so our business is allowing people who have marks against them to find a place and to also gather up that support so they can get back on their feet and start moving forward in life. Housing, as you know, is just such a huge issue kind of all across the US, but especially in the Bay Area of California, and to feel like it's something that we're providing and having some impact, it just feels really great.
Debbie:So something that is hopefully more rewarding than previous work.
Danielle:Well rewarding in a different way. I mean, I certainly got a lot of reward out of my design career. Definitely got a lot of reward out of my design career. The people that I mentored, the work that I did that, you know, impacted a lot of people, but this is just a completely different avenue. I mean, as you can imagine, there's been an incredible learning curve from this.
Danielle:I'm working with people in ways that I've never done before. I'm working with different types of people than I've done before, both you know the people on the agency side that we're working with and the residents getting to know them, getting to know the ways that they work. The residents, you know, as we grow and expand, I certainly won't have the opportunity to have, you know, these deep connections with every person who passes through our door, but at this point, you know I really do have love for every one of those people who stay with us and you know all of their stories are unique. They're all battling difficulties and feeling like you can help someone in give them one thing to to worry about when things can be so difficult it it really makes me feel good yeah, that's absolutely beautiful and thank you so much for what you're doing.
Debbie:Um, I wanted to ask how this type of work matches some of your core personal qualities or your personality traits.
Danielle:Yeah, so you know, I think that one of the things that never used to be a core quality of me, but is something I've evolved into, is becoming a better listener and understanding. You know, I think of it as wisdom and in that way that you know, older people know what to say and what not to say, right, when you offer up a point for people to think about and when you offer up actual advice. And you know, I think that the way that I've learned to relate to people and to help people solve problems has definitely evolved into more of a strength that I've consciously worked on. Right, it didn't just come about naturally Once you turn 48, like boom, you got it. No, that's not how it works.
Danielle:Um, I also um in my career.
Danielle:You know, a lot of times in the design field they talk about um, kind of the synthesizer and the generator, the, the people who are, who are kind of out there and thinking into the future and coming up with innovative new ideas, and then the people who are more bringing the plane in for a landing, the people who are figuring out the logistics operations, like how things are actually going to happen. I have lived in both of those spaces and I think you know this is another area where I've learned to work with my business partner, Nori, who is definitely a generator and always kind of looking down the road for us, and always kind of looking down the road for us and, you know, even though she's very experienced, my tech background affords me more knowledge of, like some tools and shortcuts and technology solutions. And so, you know, fortifying that relationship being the synthesizer to her generator to you know, kind of make sure that everything is coming in for a landing has been something that I had as a skill and is really kind of emphasized and strengthened now as well.
Debbie:And is she still your personal trainer?
Danielle:And is she still your personal trainer? No, I know she wishes it were different, but we both got very busy and so I don't see her in that capacity anymore. But she does give me little tips and often inquires about how I'm keeping up on my training.
Debbie:Very good. When you think about your transition from the design and tech jobs into this new area, is there anything you look back on and feel like was a mistake or something you regret or wish you could do over again?
Danielle:a mistake or something you regret or wish you could do over again. Yes and no, I certainly look back, and so you know I got laid at a time when many, many people were getting laid off. Linkedin started to read like an obituary there for a long time and still continues in the design field, in tech generally, and so you know the with hindsight, I am often turning to folks who are newly in this position and offering some ideas about you know what to do and based on what I could have done better, right, um, but I'm also very much of the opinion that everything leads someplace. Those mistakes that I made, uh, have led me to where I am now.
Danielle:You know, as far as my job search went, certain things went very well, but I am really thrilled that I was kind of forced to reevaluate, forced to make the changes that I knew I really needed to make anyway, long term, and continue to learn in the work that I'm doing. Lots of things I can look at and go oh, I didn't really nail that one, but the lessons that I'm learning, the pivots that we're making, they're all kind of leading to something bigger and better. So, yes, I make lots of mistakes, but I don't regret any of them, I think.
Debbie:Because you're learning from them.
Danielle:Mm-hmm.
Debbie:So for listeners who are going.
Danielle:Sorry, go ahead. I just said big uncomfortable lessons sometimes, sorry, go ahead. I just said big uncomfortable lessons sometimes.
Debbie:For sure, for sure, thinking about some of the people who might be listening right now, and maybe you're not comfortable with this, but if you are comfortable with this, would you please share maybe one mistake that you feel like you've made, or one thing that you maybe advise people to do differently because of your own experience?
Danielle:Yeah, so one of the things that I did was I followed. There's a person named Phil Terry who started a program and wrote a book called Never Search Alone and I enrolled in that program where I had I was part of a job search council.
Danielle:It's this volunteer, organized groups that are set up for people who are also seeking work, so you're offering each other moral support. I would definitely recommend to everybody you know, don't sleep on the networking, ask people for help, join groups like that. Make sure that when you leave a job, that you're still trying to take what you can from your personal relationships there. So, yeah, I you know when, when we get laid off, it's very easy to to of feel like you want to move on and maybe not kind of go back to that well right, it's moving on and going to the future.
Debbie:But yeah, I would say, but yeah, I would say the networking and kind of closing those loops on the personal relationships from past jobs is something that I wish I would have cultivated more to the degree that I needed to do. You mean like connecting with those people through social media or keeping in touch with them and having video calls. Is there anything in particular where you feel like you could have done more?
Danielle:Yeah, I feel like there were a lot of great examples, because there were so many of my peers who were also looking for work. Right, there were so many of my peers who were also looking for work. Right. One of the things that I see is where people will put out an open call and maybe have a Calendly link where they say I'm open for coffees, we can do it by video or we can meet in person, set something up with me. Also, some people are kind of naturally connectors. Some people kind of naturally keep relationships going over the years.
Danielle:Certainly, I'm sure most of us look at our LinkedIn and have a number of people we're actually not sure when we met them or in what context. Right, Because we do our careers are long and we accumulate a lot of connections over time. Right, it definitely is worthwhile to cultivate those more. I think that there are a lot of things I could have done more of, but I'm also very happy with some of the things that I did do the people that I reached out to, the people that I engaged with and leaned on a bit for help, for collaboration in the job search. There were so many of us kind of going through the same things and, yeah, I'm thinking about a number of people that I was so glad to connect with and commiserate, and we would share tips. We would also review each other's materials, give one another advice. This is even outside of the job search council. This is with my own connections. So there's a lot of benefit in leveraging the people around you in ways that maybe you aren't thinking of initially.
Debbie:Yeah, thank you for that. Great points, and our listeners might be considering leaving tech or adding non-tech work to what they're already doing. What advice would you give them?
Danielle:Well, so one of the pieces of advice that I have given freely to a number of my contacts is that you know, when we are facing kind of lack of opportunities in our career and recognizing that we may have to find a new career altogether. I have noticed that and I did this myself you initially start looking to what am I passionate about? Right?
Danielle:You know what are the things that really get me excited and then look to go down those paths. Right, I would say don't make that your criteria. Criteria, because the things that have become your passion due to the life you had before may not actually be good work going forward and don't cut yourself off from developing new passions as well. So I'm thrilled with the work that I'm doing. It isn't something that I would have kind of come up with on my own. It was an opportunity that presented itself to me. There were enough things that were relevant to me, that were inside of my skill set. I felt very positive about the business partnership, so I moved forward with that. But if I had just kind of relied on the things that I was passionate about, this definitely, you know, probably would not have materialized.
Danielle:And then another kind of aspect of that is I think it's it's okay to think about the money first, you know to think about okay, what industries to think about? Okay, what industries, what sectors are going to kind of expand over time where they're your need right, and then kind of route about for possibilities there as well, route about for possibilities there as well. So I think people get a little bit flummoxed when they're thinking about, when they're thinking about kind of the capacity for making the income that they're used to in kind of a tangential field to what they were already in right. Sometimes it's not so easy to just make a little adjustment, a little shift, gain a few skills and kind of hop over and basically stay on the same path. If you have to completely reimagine, it's okay to think about where the money is, because a lot of us still have kids to put through college and other responsibilities, economic and otherwise.
Debbie:Yeah, thanks for that. Really exciting for me to hear some of the things in my Life After Tech. Book echoed and you haven't even read it. So great to hear from some like-minded people on those issues. If people wanted to get in touch with you or follow you or connect with you in some way, where can we find you?
Danielle:Primarily on LinkedIn and Instagram, but that's a social media aspect. Definitely connect with me on LinkedIn. Rising Tide Residences has a page there If you'd like to go to the URL on the screen. That's certainly a way to kind of see what we're about and get in touch. There's a contact form there as well. We're often looking for volunteers, donations et cetera, and if you know of anyone who is looking for housing in the Bay Area, send them along as well.
Debbie:Okay, great. Did you want to give the Instagram or not? If it's a personal account, necessarily.
Danielle:Oh yes, Rising Tide Residences.
Debbie:Excellent, okay, and the URL is risingtideresidencesorg for people listening to the audio only version, and you'll also be able to find Danielle on the LinkedIn. So we're wrapping up here. Thank you so so much for being on the podcast. Any last words that you want to give on these topics?
Danielle:I hope that everyone who is looking to change careers and searching for something after tech is as lucky as I am to find something that really kind of feeds them down in their soul.
Debbie:Absolutely beautiful. I wish everybody the same as well. Danielle, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Danielle:Thank you. Debbie, whatever, and it's never Is it better To quit forever.
